Hello. Thank you for listening to our podcast, Autism Goes to College. I’m Tony Yao and if you’ve been here before, you already know part of my story. Well,

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today we’re at the end of my college story because I graduate this week from St. Mary’s College in Moraga, California. Just to recap, I started

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college in 2021 at the University of Oregon. Uh just during the COVID pandemic, I didn’t exactly love the weather in Oregon and I decided to

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leave. Spent a couple semesters in community college closer to my home in Northern California. then transferred to St. Mary’s College as a sophomore. So, I ended up going to three colleges. Kind

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of a winding road to graduation, but overall it’s a pretty good experience and I’ll say more about that in the episode. But first, I’m here with Katherine O’Brien, the host of Autism

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Goes to College podcast and I’m going to hand it over to her. Hey everyone and I really want to start off with a hearty

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congratulations to you Tony. This will be your fourth appearance on Autism Goes to College. So, we’ve heard from you at

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all three of the institutions you attended and now it’s the eve of your graduation. Uh, so thank you so much for

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your generosity and openness and for letting us join you, uh, in your moment of triumph. Um, so, uh, you’re wrapping

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it all up and I just want to check in and hear about how, uh, the final, uh, couple years have been since we talked

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at in spring of sophomore year. you felt like maybe it was as good or better than you expected when you started at St.

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Mary’s College. Did that hold? Uh, I think it’s been a while since we last spoken, haven’t we? It’s been Yeah, you

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So, it was um just to sort of situate you, you you had broken your wrist. It was right before spring break and you

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were still at home kind of rehabbing that injury. Oh, well, I’m glad to see that you’re not in a cast, so time time

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changes things for you. Yeah. So, it’s been a minute. Um, how’s it been? Um, so

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first off, the wrist is fine. Um, so far I’ve gone through a lot of upper division classes. Um, that that’s been

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cool. Um, sort of gotten used to like the St. Mary’s routine, you know, a lot of like the small small class sizes, a

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lot of communication with professors and just sort of communicating if I if I have something come up where I I’m doing

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a lot I I’ve done a lot of stuff where I’m I’m an exec of a club. I’ve do uh the pep band at St. Mary’s especially

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for the basketball band. We’re we’re one of like the top like 25 basketball men’s basketball programs in the country. So

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we do a lot of stuff there and so I’m juggling and doing a college degree on top of that. So we’re doing a lot of stuff. So that works. So it sounds like

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you’re kind of the proverbial big fish in a small pond and having that smaller setting and more nurturing community is

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really working out for you. Uh we also talked about the switch in majors from business and the school of business to

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economics. Um, are you graduating with a degree in economics and was that ultimately the right fit? Yeah, I I’d

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say so. Um, so ultimately I decided to graduate with the Bachelor of Arts in Econ. Um, Awesome. The only difference at least at St. Mary’s is you have to

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pass calculus 2. Uh, I couldn’t do calculus 2. Um, I’ve done I did all the other classes that were required of the econ major except for that one class.

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So, I’m I’m basically a bachelor of science, but except for Cal 2, which whatever. There’s no there’s no difference in the job market. No one

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really cares if it’s a BA or BS. Did you end up enjoying the study of economics?

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Um, and did you uh feel sort of supported academically in that department? I would say so. Yeah. Um,

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professors were very accommodating in terms of like if I needed extended test time, they would just give it whether it was like through SDS or just like under

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the table like, hey, if you need like time, just like stay after after class or something like that, just stay for like 30 minutes or something like that.

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Um, yeah, I’d say the hardest class I’ve had is actually like this coming class is our capstone. So, the way I’ll explain like what a capstone or like

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capstones are. I think we do it a little differently at St. Mary’s College. So I don’t know if that word can mean so many

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things in so many institutions. So how does St. Mary’s do it? So for the economics economics program, it’s we do

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it starts last so this actually started last semester or last two semesters ago where we pick a topic of our choice. We

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write basically like a paper like an economics paper on it and we take one one semester um writing what’s called a

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perspective saying like what are we doing? What’s our topic? How are we going to address it? What kind of analysis are we going to do on it? So we have a presentation on that. So it’s

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sort of like a defense style like almost like a doctoral style defense on that.

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So that’s the first part of it and then the second part is actually writing it and you have to defend that as well. You have to defend your fightings. So it was

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almost kind of like a baby master’s programish. So that was Yeah. Stressful to say least. Original scholarship to a

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degree. Yeah. And the intent was for like everyone’s work is like to the

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point where you can actually publish it in like a real journal. So I can go out and like publish it in an actual economics like journal and it has like

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codes where it can correspond to everything if I really wanted to. Is that something you hope to do or are you ready to um leave uh leave academia

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behind for the moment? Uh I think if I were to go back and revisit it, I think I will eventually publish it. Yeah, I

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feel pretty proud of it. I encourage you to do that. I think publishing your work is a great idea. So, you came in with accommodations and you said they were

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really working well for you that first year at St. Mary’s. Um, how has that evolved and did you find you needed more

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support or less support as time went on and you focused in on the major?

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Um, I’d say it really depended based on the semester. Um, when SDS came in, it was

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more of like the the requirement classes where it was like, okay, here’s all the classes that came in. It’s just a bunch

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of like little take this English class, take this social science, you know, those sorts of requirements. Yeah. Take take like the TRS class, take this

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whatever religious studies class, take whatever because we’re a Catholic institution, you have to take a religious class. So, like if you need those class where like there’s an exam, there’s something, there’s wherever,

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that’s when STS comes in. it’s like there’s time and a half. But if it’s like an upper division class where I get a little more like time with the

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professor and it’s not it’s more project based, I can there’s more I guess not say more

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leeway, but like SDS I not say can’t help but more of you have to go and communicate with the professor yourself

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and kind of work it out because it’s a small class a professor within your department that knows you. It is about

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that personal communication and not institutional it sounds like. And were you able to make that work or was that challenging? Were

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professors willing to work with you? I’d say I had a good enough rapport with actually all my professors to actually make it

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work. Yeah, I’d say so. I didn’t I didn’t really run into any problems.

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That’s great. I wish I could say like, oh, I had this massive problem and I could overcome it. Not not really.

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I can’t listen. I mean, I guess it’s it’s good to have interesting stories, but for my part, I’m glad that you that

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you had a mostly positive experience where professors were understanding and and working um ad hoc with you and and

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meeting you where you were at. Um let’s talk about housing and your living situation. Where are you living this year? So, for the past for all my years,

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I’ve lived at an apartment just just like near near campus. So, yeah. An off-campus apartment. Are you living there solo right now? Yeah. Yeah, I’m currently living there solo. So, yeah.

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And reflecting back, I know in your first quarter at the University of

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Oregon, you were in a privately operated sort of holistic support dorm for

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students um with disabilities where support was kind of 247 available and there was a lot of structure built in,

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but there was also a pretty high upfront cost with that. Now that you’re done with college and thinking about maybe

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parents and students who would consider programs like that, do you think they’re worth it? Or are there certain students for whom they might be most worth it?

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Uh, I really don’t know. For me, it was just like I need I I I know what I like and I like peace. I

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I like just being able to like go back home and just like flop go down just like I think I think it’s more of having

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the ability to just like go back go back to like a place and just have no distractions, no like any drama to go back to. That’s kind of my thing. Just

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like like home is just where there’s no nobody there is like minimal people there where I just like go back and just

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crash because being outside is hard for me. Yeah. So, it’s it’s apparent why it wasn’t it for you, but there might be

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other people for whom it is it. And the important thing is to just know what you need from your living situation.

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Um, so you moved home for a bit while you were attending Foothills Community College. Do I have that right? Uh, Foothill. Foothill. Foothill. Okay.

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Sorry. Yes. And and then you moved into this apartment at um off campus at St.

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Mary’s. Have you had romance at all there or has it Have you been flying solo this whole time? Um, I’ve just been

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flying solo this whole time. It’s just just been me. Occasionally my parents come in checking on me just make sure, you know, there’s no like a dead rat or something like coming in, but there’s no

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dead rats. Oh my goodness. There’s no dead rats. There’s no dead rats. Don’t worry. Yeah. I mean, I wondered if that was a story that had had previously

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occurred, but it sounds like you have a little bit of inbuilt family support. Um hopefully, you know, just some

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nurturance from home, maybe an occasional uh shared meal with your folks. Yeah.

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Um and how’s your social life at St.

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Mary’s? Um I know the student body is is on the small side. Like I went to a smaller college as well with about 2500

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students. And did you find that easier socially than a big place like UFO?

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I feel like at I think at both colleges actually my my social life was pretty good. Feel like at Oregon actually the the biggest thing I missed probably was

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the social life. Oh yeah. I guess I guess just because of the marching band there the band people was just I had that smaller net thing. So I just that

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wasn’t that much of a problem. I just that what I didn’t worry about. But I guess at St. Mary’s I have a good enough social circle here already. So I don’t

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miss it per se but it’s just like not that much of a problem. Yeah, I mean that is a great point.

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Larger campuses can support a much broader array of student activities, things like nationally famous marching

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bands. Um, yeah. Have you found um musical outlets that work for you at St.

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Mary’s even though there isn’t that band culture that there was um at Oregon? Um, I’d say it was a bit of an adjustment.

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like as you said, the band culture isn’t as like massive or big at St. Mary’s.

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So, there’s a bit of an adjustment period and I’m I’ve come from just that in general. So, I’m just kind of used to that. So, it was just a bit

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of an adjustment kind of adjusting attitudes, but I managed to make it work. So, yeah, it was more of like a fun fun have loose have fun kind of

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thing deal. So, yeah. Did did you join any student music groups? Uh my first

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like year I joined like the the music ensembles just to get some credits.

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Those were those were good. But then as the year like upper division went on, I just didn’t have time in my Yeah. So I’m guessing that with graduation coming

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sometime in the last year or two, you started to consider employment. Um thinking about that, did you start with

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like maybe an internship junior year or what was the beginning of that process like? So, what was this? My sophomore year’s This is the year I broke my hand.

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So, the year I broke my hand, I got accepted to an internship at a local labor union, the Contraosta Labor

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Council. So, okay. So, like that was a really fun internship. Got some pretty good experience of just like seeing what that’s like

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and just like seeing like the diversity of what’s what’s going on there. And so, you had an internship after sophomore year there in Contraosta County. Cool.

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Okay. And and then how did it grow from there? I guess um the the tough part is like this is just like something for everyone.

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Like this is not just for like nerd diverse students. This is just for everyone. The job market is just ruthless. Like it’s just tough. It’s hard. Yeah. And I’m I’m actually doing

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uh I don’t think I’ve told I think I’ve told it’s been a while, but I’m actually doing uh applying to the master’s program at St. Mary. So I’m doing an MS

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in accounting. So my my academic journey is not over. So yeah. Okay, great. Um, so what were you doing as an as an

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intern at the uh Contraosta Labor Council? So internship I was mostly just helping out with the records like recordkeeping.

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Um, also doing um helping them create like a history like a labor history presentation for

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like um outline like what is the history labor unions kind of thing. It’s a little history thing on the site too.

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Well, it’s nice that they give you a little bit more than you know printing and copying at least. Although I did my share of printing and copy. I’m sure you did. Yeah, but I also did more stuff on

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the side too. that I mean it’s good to get both exposure and classical internship. So what

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happened next? You went back junior year uh tried to get more internships and

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jobs and then just nothing came through unfortunately. So oh oh right actually I did do a class over the summer. It was a

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it data data science class. It was actually really it was over Zoom but when I couldn’t find find anything so I

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just had to do something. Okay. So after junior year you weren’t able to find another internship like you did. I hear that. Okay. Um so it’s been harder.

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Um and is that what did you always think you might want to go to grad school or was grad school something because you

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weren’t sure there would be a job opportunity right away? that was kind of a secondary plan. Uh it’s just been kind of 50/50 whether it was a good fit.

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Um I thought I know maybe if it’s like fits well. I I know my adviser who’s

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also my okay I I’ve never told this but my my adviser is also the chair of the econ department. So it’s there’s also

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kind of that that weird sort of dynamic there where he’s also taught me in class as well. So it’s also that very tight-knit thing as well. So he knows me

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very well. Like he he recommended me doing like MS in accounting. So Okay. So

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it it when you say it’s weird, it’s it’s just that you uh see this this person in so many capacities and it’s you feel

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very seen or is it maybe smothered? It’s it’s not No, it’s not smothered at all.

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It’s just I know a lot of different like my peers they don’t have that sort of relationship with their adviser. I see

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like their advisor is very detached. Not not it’s definitely not their their advisor is definitely not the chair of the department. It definitely is not

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like that in most schools. I don’t have that connection. Yeah. Yeah. Did you find um that career services and that

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maybe the internship pipeline had any supports that were specific to neurody diverent students? I I know some companies and some recruiting platforms

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are now specificly targeting neurody diverent students. Is that something St. Mary’s does at all?

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Um, if I found any, I I wouldn’t say I would pursue it p personally. I

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I’m not sure. I’m not sure obviously. So whether or not they’re doing it, it’s not something that you’re really pursuing. Um, I guess not this time just

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just because like I personally just have my mind set on grad school, but cool. I mean, I think that’s wonderful. Um, so

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do you start in the summer for graduate school or is that something where you get to uh take a summer off? So if I get

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into the program, I get starts on I think June 24th. So it’ll be like around two weeks and then I’m back to it. Okay.

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And you’re not certain or when do you find out for certain whether you’re accepted? I guess. So the applications closed June 1st and I’m actually meeting

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with like a bunch of like the grad graduate like faculty and like discussing like the the nitty-gritty pro

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process of like chances and stuff like that. Okay. So it it’s going to be a pretty quick turnaround and we’re just

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going to keep our fingers crossed that within the next month or so you have good news and you’re starting your masters. Yeah. Um

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that’s exciting. a lot of moving pieces though. What with graduation coming too, I can see that you’ll be busy. Yeah. Um that’s that’s good stuff though.

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Um so looking back on your student journey, was there anything about

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college or colleges that were that was easier than you expected?

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I’d say I’d say workload.

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I I’m not sure like other than like your academic laborers were less than than you thought they would be. Yeah. I guess

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this is just coming from like just from my perspective like a very like academically tough high

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school. Just coming into a college that’s relatively I wouldn’t say academically like relaxed, but it’s like it’s not

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it’s not like the toughest. So, I think I said I was like I was expecting a lot like to have like allnighters every single night.

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Well, if you have an all nighter every single night, you simply die of lack of sleep pretty quickly. So, that’s not that’s not a very realistic expectation

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either. But I hear you. You went to a rigorous high school where you already were doing a lot of work and then when college was not much more work, it

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probably was like, hm, okay, I got this.

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Um, were there aspects of college outside of the academics that were harder than you expected or that were surprising or uncomfortable?

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I guess just guess just living on my own. It definitely takes takes getting used to, but then once you once you get like a

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couple couple months, it’s like ah, this is this is nice. But then there’s also there’s also that like discipline that comes into it where it’s like okay you

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gotta do you gotta do the work. Come on wake yourself up. Wake yourself up. That I have like multiple alarms when I

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remember to go to class and it’s like hour early, two hours early and I have like five alarms and I ignore everyone

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except the last one. I know I ignore everyone except the last one. So I I have like six alarms set. Are there any

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other insights or things that you wish you had known starting out that you know now as a neurody divergent college student?

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I’m not sure. Feel like I had a relatively once I got to St. Mary’s is relatively like linear like nothing nothing really stood out.

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Nothing I’m not I don’t know what to tell you. just just nothing got there’s no like real roadblocks that

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I thought about that it that’s great. I think maybe if I had to sort of say my

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takeaway from your journey is that college can be kind of easy and pleasant

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and good if you’re at the right location for you. And if you’re really suffering and you hate the weather and you can’t

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do it, don’t be afraid to find a different spot. Yeah.

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Um, does that sound fair? Yeah. Yeah. As I say, you put it in better words than I do since Yeah. I guess like once I found

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the right place, it’s everything just sort of like fell into place. It was just like, okay, get the work done. And now 3 years later, I’ll be walking and shaking Yes.

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person’s hand. Random person’s hand.

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Yes. And And you like it well enough to aspire and hopefully to attend their

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graduate program. So I think that’s that’s a rigging endorsement for St.

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Mary’s and how the fit has worked out for you. All right. Any lingering thoughts

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for students who might be earlier on their college journey um now that you are about to achieve that bachelor’s?

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Keep going. I guess keep going. Listen to any of Tony’s four appearances on this podcast. He said many good things.

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Something like that during those interviews. Plug go plug my other podcast appearances. Something like that. Yeah. Yep.

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Um and and thank you for your boldness and just sharing the full cycle of college from first year to graduation.

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uh and congratulations.

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