Podcast 48 | transcript
Hello, thanks for listening to our podcast Autism Goes to College. I’m Jasmine Bour and I was one of the students featured in the documentary
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film Autism Goes to College. I’m here for an update. So, before graduating from UC Riverside in 2022, I was on the
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podcast talking about looking for my first professional job. I’ve been working full-time for two and a half years now. And then halfway through my
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work, I realized I wanted to go back to graduate school. and I will share some insights about how that’s all going. I’m
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joined here by another student from the film who is also in graduate school.
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Hi everyone, I’m Annella Fields. I’ve been working in the entertainment industry since graduating about 6 to 7
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years now. I also went to UC Riverside for undergraduate and right now I’m
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working full-time and at the same time going to graduate school part-time online which I’ll talk about in this
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episode. We’re both here with Katherine O’Brien, the host of the Autism Goes to College podcast, and I’ll hand it over
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to her. Hey everyone. So, thank you to both of you for being here and graciously catching you up. I’m excited
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to chat with you about graduate school as uh three people who did undergrad as
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students on the spectrum and have come back for more college which is in some level an endorsement of the college
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experience. Um I think it’ll be a great conversation for me. Um after graduating
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uh from Bowden back in 2012, I am a little older than our other two guests.
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Um, I worked in biomedical research and pivoted to teaching. I went back to get my um, master’s in education with
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teaching lensure from Harvard. Um, and now I’m at UC Riverside getting a PhD in special education uh, with a focus on
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autism. But first, I can talk about my decision to get a graduate degree.
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Honestly, I think I was operating with a little bit of inertia. Uh I was always planning to do a type of graduate school
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and when I started working at a medical school and became pretty rapidly disillusioned with healthc care in America and the things that actual
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doctors get to do on a daily basis, I sort of thought, well, I’ll just get a a different grad degree with something I
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like better and I liked education and teaching better. So I kind of continued the grad school momentum in just a slightly different direction. In
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hindsight, I regret that my uh undergrad self didn’t have work experience and exposure to the realities of medicine,
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but hindsight is 2020 and I still am pretty happy with how it turned out.
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Um, so that’s the basics of our stories and I’m just curious to hear how both of you decided to go back for more and then
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how it’s panning out for you now that you’re in. So Annella, in the documentary film, there’s actually a moment where we have you on camera
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saying, “When I’m done, that’ll be it for me. I will be the first person in my family not to have a graduate degree.”
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Yeah. I I feel like when I said that, I wasn’t fully aware of all my options at
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the time and I I did end on a much positive a much more positive note at um
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UC Riverside with my last year. But um obviously I just didn’t always have the positive experience with school. And I
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feel like with library and information science, it was a really unique um opportunity because of I really I
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recently got into just books in general in the last few years and I’ve been an avid reader reading over 100 books the
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last three years and it’s it’s kind of become a bigger hobby for me now. And what was kind of unique about it too is that uh it’s not just um library stuff.
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It’s also about information science.
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It’s about um how people are receiving information. And it it’s kind of funny because it kind of lends into my current
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role in the entertainment industry as well right now with all the um TV shows and movies and content now online between all the
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streaming platforms. They’re essentially big cataloges of kind of like libraries except it’s more TV shows and movies.
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Digital entertainment libraries.
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Yeah. I was going to ask if you feel this is a a big career change from entertainment or how they’re connected for you, but you you brought it up quite
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eloquently on your own. Um, and did you consider an in-person grad program or did you um primarily look at online schools?
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Yeah, I definitely didn’t want to leave my current role and I I’m not at the moment. Um, I I do like what I do. I’m
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I’m kind of open in the future if it’s something still in the entertainment industry that kind of is bolstered by
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the library and information science cuz it’s a lot of like different aspects that still relate to it that there are roles for
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um as well as but also the option of potentially being a librarian as well.
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when I was looking for the programs online, it was kind of nice that um San Jose’s was really um very flexible that
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you had to just have gotten your degree from an undergraduate um a bachelor and and you had a certain like GPA. So that
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kind of helped make my decision that it that was probably like my one option because a lot of others like UCLA and USC, they were either five times the
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cost or you needed references or and I think they still like evaluated a lot of more different aspects versus San Jose
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kind of made the barrier of entry a little easier as well as Yeah.
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Yeah. And are the actual classes like online synchronous that you’re taking or or is there more of an asynchronous self-paced aspect to your program?
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Majority is asynchronous, but some of them do have um certain lectures where it is you you go into some of them, but
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they’re all online and it’s not as like cumbersome as kind of inperson ones or uh lectures. A lot of it is you work
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through like modules and stuff like that and the professors are there to answer any questions. They they’ll pre-record a lot of stuff. Definitely.
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What are you currently studying? Just because I I really don’t know what people who are enrolled in a library science degree study in one of my last core classes because
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I’ve been in it about a year. So, um some of them are about the the information systems where any
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information is stored. Um, a lot of it is more critical thinking that’s like general for grad school. And the one I’m taking right now is about cataloging. So
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that’s like the Dewey decimal and the kind of the more traditional aspects to it. So it’s it’s flexible in the sense that um you can as long as you’re
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hitting certain um classes for the requirements. I don’t have a specific focus right now. So the the core um
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concentration required to have the foundation for the rest of your masters essentially. Jasmine, you’re doing
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something a little different um but a master’s program in environmental engineering at Cal State Fullerton, which is actually in person, not online.
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Um, how did you decide perhaps through work? Um, that you wanted to get that
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master’s and go back to school. Um, and was there a certain experience that prompted you to go back and to choose the program that you’re now in?
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It’s actually a craziest story. Um, I was actually looking for jobs, uh, engineering jobs in Antarctica and the
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work seems incredible and I was looking at the qualifications and they require higher education
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and I was like, if I if I want to work in Antarctica, I have to have higher education and then I’d be doing super
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cool work and I’d be getting a lot of money.
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Fascinating. So, I’m with you that traveling to Antarctica in a professional capacity and being able to
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do the work that you love in such a dynamic and extreme environment sounds fabulous.
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What were you doing as your day job when you were daydreaming about Antarctica? I know that you at one point were working with the California Department of
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Transportation. Uh, were there certain California environs that led you to believe you wanted to go to Antarctica?
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How did that come to pass?
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Yeah, I wanted a challenge and I think the work itself was really fascinating, especially from a place that’s not
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really civilized and there’s a lot to discover and it drew me in for those reasons cuz
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I was like I want to I don’t know, I want to discover something or or
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contribute to like clean air, clean water out in And I also wanted to a little more independence.
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Even though I was living alone, I I I felt like I was still
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attached to my family and going to their house every night.
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Nothing wrong with that, but I was like, I need an escape and from my my normal life.
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Yeah. Yeah, fair enough.
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Okay. But I I did have to move back in with my parents cuz I did lose my job in April.
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How much of your decision to go to grad school was motivated by the potential of
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higher earnings and how were you um managing the potential short-term
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financial setbacks? I’m about I’d say it’sif I’d say it’s 50%
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based on earnings, but most of it is really um it opens new doors in the career world
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and it will allow me to research my passions as well.
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And then financially, um, yeah, because of the job loss and because it’s taking so long for me to
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find another job, I could not attend grad school this semester, which is a loss loss situation because when I’m
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unemployed, it’ be the ideal time to be getting my degree, but it’s okay. I’ll you have to be able to afford tuition, which is tough.
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Yeah. And normally I receive financial aid, but I think because my GPA is 2.99 instead of 3.0, I I can’t receive it
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anymore. And it’s been really really hard.
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Oh, that’s so stressful. I’m really sorry to hear about that.
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And I’m a a straight B student. I don’t know how it got to 2.99.
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So, what about you, Anella? How are you handling the financial aspects of grad school?
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Yeah, the financial aspects. Um, so obviously because I do I’m very fortunate. I do I do love my job and I’m
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really fortunate to um still be in it and um and get paid decently well for it. So
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again, part of my decision for San Jose was also the cost. It is it’s it definitely is a chips away at my um at
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my savings, but um I do still live at home fortunately to um and it helps my parents out too with my three younger
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siblings. Um, yeah.
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So, that that kind of helps that I have my um my paycheck and I basically am paying for graduate school and San Jose
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is on the cheaper side. Um, I’m about cuz I’m in year one and there’s two more
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years to go. I I should still be good, but um it’s kind of just also managing my finances to make sure I’m still
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saving and I’m still like putting money towards retirement and everything and trying to be responsible on that that front. Um but I’m definitely trying to
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save more as I have to pay the cost cuz that was the one thing from my parents some my older sister too like that they
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mentioned they were going to help with undergrad but they wouldn’t help with graduate school. So, I’m very fortunate that I I am in the situation that um my
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family is hosting me and I’m not paying rent and so that money is going to um to San Jose State for my um tuition.
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You’ve done a lot of education already as uh people who successfully completed
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your bachelor’s degree. How is grad school feeling similar and different to the undergrad experience?
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I I really do like San Jose State and it kind of felt like I wasn’t at first I was like questioning my decision, but
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the minute I was in it a bit more, I felt a lot better. San Jose, for some reason,
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they’ve done this online thing for a very long time. They’ve always been online and they’ve got it down to a
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science about if you’re taking three units, you’re going to be putting nine hours a week per unit
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to really like um judge about your um your time management on it.
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Mhm. The start of undergrad was definitely tricky. They even noted that too that the first semester is going to
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be the hardest for you in terms of adjustment and um understanding. But the but then know that more than likely than not
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you’re not going to have to take as much time later on because you’ll have been adjusted and you’ll you’ll be aware of the ins and outs of the different classes. So
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um it’s the first one that was the big adjustment um compared to undergrad.
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Although the back half of undergrad was nicer when you’re in your classes that are a bit more related to the topic that is in the beauty of
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San Jose was that it didn’t matter as long as I had a bachelor’s and I met a certain GPA um I was able to do this program.
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Yeah.
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But it’s it’s definitely a very much a lot of attention to detail and timing.
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like I I didn’t realize how much my writing needed help and they had a the writing center and I’ve been using them
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like constantly to and it’s helped my writing and it also helps help my writing at work for um even just like regular emails and how to like better
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communicate and be more concise. Um those were the main things I noticed that you really just have to
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even more so than undergrad you have to be more time efficient and time conscious I guess. Um, and it’s a lot of
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um, it’s just a lot of work and you have to know that you want to do something related to the topic. And I feel like that those are the differences so far I’ve seen for graduate school.
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Jasmine, do you want to chime in? Yeah, I think my my undergrad was more time crunched because I was on the quarter
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system doing undergrad, but on the in my graduate school, they’re semester system and so there’s less of a time crunch and
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I’m able to retain information a lot better, especially on days where I’m motivated.
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So, I like grad school a lot more. And the way mine is set up is two classes per semester for like two years. And so it’s I’d say it’s pretty well stressed.
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Um but now you have to hold yourself to a higher standard as well because if you don’t do good in and you’re only in two classes now you it’s not good.
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Yeah.
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You got to really do good in those two classes even though it’s just two. It’s no excuses. Mine is kind of like that
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too because um the first three um one of them had the writing portion which was kind of part of the writing assessment
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that your writing should be to the standard if you’re in graduate school and like it was almost you have to get an A like it was like 89 or even like
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higher percent for our first three classes.
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The other ones you could get a slightly lower but you’re still maintaining the 3.0 GPA to stay in the program. that I was about to say the Harvard thing isn’t
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I think a unique thing that like when you’re in graduate school and you’re trying to go for a masters it’s um yeah the it’s you’re you have the interest so
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you’re putting the time and effort and if you are putting enough in you should be reaching the standards I was scared when I they said you have
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to get over 89% in these first three classes I was like that’s almost a perfect score for everything and initially I I wasn’t getting perfect
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scores I I mean spoiler I did pass those classes. I’m in my first full I’ve gone through my first full year, so I’ve I’m
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officially in like other classes as well now. Um, but it was a lot of pressure, especially when I wasn’t initially getting perfect scores. I am now, but it
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was um it was kind of questioning like am I like am I capable of this? Um, with the
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online aspect too. I think Jasmine yours was also online that compared to the in person. Yeah, I forgot to mention that the the grad school is online which
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is super convenient in so many ways and the my undergrad was Are there drawbacks?
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Um any drawbacks? Um not not really.
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Well, you have to go to the campus in person to take tests. But at least you’re only driving out like an hour away just twice a semester.
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Yeah, undergrad I used to have to take that one hour drive every single day, but now I only do it twice a semester.
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So that’s good. And then the professors in grad school, they’re like they’d give you a project and say, “Oh, you can work
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in a team, but the word can means I can also work by myself.” And I I much prefer that.
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Yeah. I also have appreciated that level of flexibility um that group work is sometimes optional.
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Yeah.
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In undergrad, they used to force us to work with the group and then they would get mad at me because I have difficulty communicating and difficulty arranging
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uh which portions of the assignments should be done and then I procrastinate and so people were getting really frustrated with me in group projects.
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But in grad school, I get to do everything myself and uh there’s not
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that communication worry or the deadline scare as well. What about you, Anella?
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Have you had like options to sort of be more customized and and more intentional
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now that you’re a grad student? I guess yes and no. Okay.
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Um some of them in in mine um part of what they want to teach you is the teamwork aspect that you will
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unfortunately encounter in the workforce. Um so I have had a few cases
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of group projects. Obviously everyone is there wants to be there. So, I haven’t encountered anything too crazy, but as a
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person on the spectrum, I’m always a bit nervous that I sometimes have a different way of communicating um
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certain things or it it doesn’t come off the way I want it or um I I in my head I
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always overthink about like needing to have too much detail or something and when like you’re trying to get a group together and um our program is online so
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that it is like supposed to be more straightforward but you’d kind of be surprised at still how much everyone’s trying to balance and even just trying to like
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schedule a Zoom together call together at the same time. Um, but I I do sometimes like Jasmine feel like it and
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in most cases I have had an option to work by myself and um I generally am pretty motivated to and to like work
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through it. But um I’m appreciating though having to learn to work in a team because I do it in my
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current job that’s and I know most likely any of my future jobs it’s going to probably be the same way. I’m really
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fortunate in my current job that um my manager is really good at giving notes about um what I should improve on like
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oh you don’t need all this additional detail. I kind of just need to know this this top line thing. And I think graduate school is kind of helping me in that when I have like a focused
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assignment that um and when I’m working with a team like kind of trying to hone in on that.
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Yeah. Um and I I also hear you saying Jasmine that some of the resources available to you as a grad student, like
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maybe some writing coaching were things that helped. And I’m just wondering like how you found out about those and and
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what they’re like for you as a uh online grad student because I I had those resources but it was kind of easy to
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figure out cuz there was like an office on campus that was the writing center and that’s where you showed up to get writing help but I’m imagining it’s different online.
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Yeah. So, our orientation was online as well, but they showed us all the services that are available.
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And there’s links to all of them, but if I do need help, I I do prefer to go in
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person like financial aid office or um but they also have online
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availabilities, especially mental health resources and recreation.
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Well, yeah. Online recreation, believe it or not. Um Oh, interesting.
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Yeah. So, like Yeah.
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And Yeah. Yeah. What about you, Anyella?
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At the beginning of the semester, actually, because I didn’t get a perfect score my first assignment, they they recommend you to go to the writing center. Oh.
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And it’s really easy and they offer like two to three like free sessions each week.
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So, I was like I was just constantly using those. Um, and I ended up finding a tutor I really liked and I used her
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and she’s actually in LA, too. So, it was fun because we got to meet up in person later on as well.
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Um, but I it’s been so helpful having like that stability of a tutor um in the online cuz I think writing is definitely not one of my strengths and it’s really easy for me to to miss things.
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Um, I have such a busy schedule when I’m balancing my full-time and my part-time.
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it sometimes isn’t even me myself, but that I don’t have like the additional time to like look or I do need like
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a different set of eyes. And the tutoring center has been so helpful in that and or it’s like a resource that isn’t even that you need
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to have a uh a disability or anything because everyone kind of struggles with the writing in their rights and everybody can struggle with
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writing and can improve their craft as a writer. Yeah, I think it is pretty universal and because there’s also a lot of like
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details that I mean obviously as autistic I’m I do feel I am better with details but it’s so easy to still miss cuz a lot of our papers are in APA format
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and I think undergrad I was a lot of I want to say MLA yeah so it was a learning curve
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APA my experience also is that graduate courses are incredibly writing intensive and technical reading intensive as as
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You’ll be reading in the discipline. Is that what you’re finding too, Jasmine?
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Yeah, it’s uh a lot of research of course in any class that you take.
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It could be basket weaving and they’ll make you write a report. Yeah.
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You will read and write about baskets as much as you will make baskets. If you are doing gr grad school baskets, yeah. Oh, and another thing we do as
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online grad students is at the beginning of each semester, one of there’s at least one student in the class that’ll
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send you email link to like a chat group that they have created for the class that the professor won’t have access to.
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And so they use it to study and do voice chat as well. Yeah.
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So they create like little virtual study groups.
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Yeah. Initially, I was a little hesitant to join those because I didn’t know if it would be helpful and I was like, this is one more social demand that like I’m
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not really sure I need. Yeah. But I genuinely find it to be really helpful and I enjoy the um academic and social support that it brings.
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Speaking of which, how is the social aspect of of grad school? Are you finding it to be less social than
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undergrad? I’m kind of assuming it would have to be given that it is an online experience and there is less face to face interaction.
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I I socialize the same online as I did in person. I just act like I don’t exist.
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Okay. So, it it was minimally social the first go around and it it remains kind of not a very social thing. Yeah.
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Heard.
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Anella. Um, how would you contrast uh undergrad to grad as a as a sort of a social experience?
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Yeah, I mean it is almost apples to oranges like like Jasmine, I’m I was on the quarter system too and now it’s the semester so it feels like they’re very
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long except I I just did the summer semester so it kind of felt like I was right back at a um the 10-week pace but
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I that’s why I only took one class because I’ve been doing two classes this semester but the summer I only took one but I’m still on track. like they they
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give you like seven years, but that’s so many years.
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Yeah. But if you don’t finish it, then you um you’re disqualified from the program.
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So, it’s like they have a little they have all these like parameters like they you should be hitting them if you’re um and and I’m only doing it part-time, so I’m I’m hitting it.
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A protracted you get more time because you’re not doing it full. I get that.
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Yeah. But definitely a lot less um like social interactions because online versus in person. um because I did
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undergrad in person. Um they do have like they do like ba bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl blast these emails of different like groups you can
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join for online that for specific topics and different opportunities and um I did have to interact a bunch like
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over zoom with different um when when I was in a lot of group projects. So there was some talking and funnily enough the
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tutor I regularly go to she’s in the exact same portion of the program as I am. So we always end up like consulting each other about some of the um like
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pacing and all the like looking at what are good classes to take and stuff like that. Um so there I have had a little
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bit of a social aspect but mostly not as much compared to undergrad when it was in person.
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How about time management particularly Anyella because you have kept your full-time job. Do you have any tips and tricks? Is it kind of harder than ever?
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It’s hard. It is. I need to be very disciplined and I need and again the
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motivation I I do very much try to be brain off when I’m not in school when I’m there’s like the few like
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weeks off or the week in between. Summer I didn’t get as much because I was taking the summer class, but there was a little bit of a break between two. Um, I
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I basically kind of have to I I do though know like I need to give myself like a little bit of balance. So
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like I try to make Friday night and Saturdays when I’m off of work when I get off work on Friday that yeah,
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this is my time off. Um, unless like there’s a unless I’m like looking at a a tight deadline that I didn’t really prepare for. But I’m always like trying
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to like start as early as I can for certain assignments which has helped my um time management as well because it’s
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on because most of them are modules like most of the teacher you see the whole um course outlined from the start to finish
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and you see when the different assignments are due. So, I might like work on them even just get started and look at them
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like a week or two before like it might be normally when they was intended to look at so that I can like chop at it
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like bit by bit. Um, but I do have to set time like Monday through Thursday.
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The minute that I’m like back home from work after I’ve like kind of relaxed a little and had dinner and stuff that I’m I’m up pretty late and I have to be
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really like efficient with that time Monday through Thursday and Sunday as well because that’s kind of like I do other stuff on Sunday too, but I Sunday’s kind of like the overflow day.
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And I just yeah, I’ve gotten it down to a system, but it’s definitely like very um tricky and some weeks are easier than
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others depending on when certain assignments are due. Um and it’s just staying on top of the assignment dates really.
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I mean, how are you handling the time management pieces, Jasmine, or how were you handling them uh before you had to take this kind of break? I only lived 10
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minutes away from my from work to home and so when I would get home I still have a lot of spare time to work on something.
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Yeah. So the logistics really matter um in terms of not we don’t all have the same 24 hours because we have different other responsibilities, commutes, etc.
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Um, so being self-aware about what the existing demands on our time is is pretty important when we approach time management for sure.
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Um, Annella, I know you said you have seven years or they’re like you’re done with the program and you don’t get extra time anymore, but Jasmine, is there a certain time?
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Four years for mine.
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But it shouldn’t take that long unless I take too many breaks in between semesters like I am now. So I should
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roughly be graduating in two more years from um from this summer one. So like um
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like summer of not summer of 27 like end of spring of 27 hopefully if I’m pass all my classes
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if I am on the expected PhD timeline for a expected PhD that is also when I will be done. Um, nice.
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I I mean, obviously, particularly with um the significant reductions in federal
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funding for research, a lot of people at the PhD level are and were funded by those grants that no longer exist. So, I
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think in general there is a concern about finishing your PhD sooner nationwide because the research funding
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is drying up at an alarming rate. Uh, and I certainly have personally felt that fear and we’ve shuffled around
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where the funding for my degree is coming from and I only expect that pressure to intensify. Thinking ahead to
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when you are done, are there certain things you’re looking for as outcomes to know that the degree was a good investment, that this was a right call?
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Um, like is there a certain goal after you have the uh master’s degree in hand that you’re hoping will come?
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For me, it’s job security. Like I know if I if I had my degree, my graduate degree
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as of right now, I think it wouldn’t have taken me several months to get a new job. And if I ever get laid off again, which is very prevalent in
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engineering firms, I want to have that that backup. It establishes credibility.
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Definitely. What about you, Anella? Will do you think you might just stay in the entertainment industry even though you’ll have this sort of library credential?
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That’s a good question. Yeah, because um you need this masters from this um San Jose is one of the accredited programs
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with this masters to even be a librarian. Yes.
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Um we love librarians. They’re very very well-trained, smart people.
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Yeah. No. Um, for sure. I I feel like I’m still like as I’m taking my classes, I’m and I’m learning the
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topics, I’m trying to be as open as possible to the opportunities. like the the two big ones I try to see is either
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staying in the entertainment industry and finding that niche or having it like build up on my current job, which helps.
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Um, but I do also want to consider a librarian position, but I do need more
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um experience on that. It’s like obviously it’s kind of hard to do an internship to get more practical experience when I’m working full-time.
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And what’s kind of unfortunate is it’s technically an option to be one of your classes. It’s like so instead of taking like two classes, one semester could be
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a class and a um an internship internship as the second one. But I I haven’t sorted through that yet. I need
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to go to the career center a little bit more. But that that’s kind of what I’m envisioning at the moment, one of those two. But I do know for the library one I
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would need more um exposure and experience to actually qualify a little bit better for it.
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It’s incredibly competitive to become a a full-time librarian from what I understand. Uh even given that everybody
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who’s in that competitive pool has to complete the masters. At the same time though, especially given the just explosion
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of digital entertainment media, I can see such a need for people with that skill set of cataloging and
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caretaking and keeping media resources to be in the entertainment industry. So,
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even if you do the um library internship and get that experience and then realize that what you’ve gotten is a gut feeling
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that you want to stay closer to your current role, I think that’s like tremendously valuable and it is very cool that you can get credit for it,
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which makes it a little bit easier to contemplate changing your work schedule to be able to like take on an internship, for example.
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Yeah. No. Um, this kind of helped give it like a safety blanket of um, like with this accreditation. I I have seen jobs in the entertainment industry where
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you need a library and information science, an M ms degree when it’s like maybe more data driven stuff because they look a lot at like
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what content is working and why and different stuff like that. So, it um, it definitely has the both options.
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Yeah, that makes sense. and you have some time uh and it’s great to have choices that that although it can be
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hard to have the pressure of choosing something there is something wonderful and liberating in having things to
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choose from. Best of luck to you both in becoming masters uh Anella and Jasmine.
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All right.
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Thank you both for chatting with me about grad school. Thank you. Thank you.
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Bye-bye.
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